Arisaema hybrids

[Adam Fikso]

I am replying to this rather complicated posting by Pascal bcause he has
endorsed an important and easily misunderstood idea. The issue, I think can
be "boiled down" to keeping adequate records of crosses made, and crosses
attempted, together with chromosome counts of species or clones or samples
from a "hybrid swarm", collected under number.    (James Archibald's term, I
think, but maybe Watson's) where these are available.
Chen Yi's collections wouldn't be such a problem, I suspect, if she was able
to keep her tubers separate from each other after they were collected.    I
have a few things under number that clearly do not match up with numbers
already indexed by members of this group.

There are issues of record keeping, lost  tags, misidentified stuff,
indecipherable writing on tags because of weathering, tags of crosses made
that are blown off by wind (here in the Chicago area).  Tags firmly planted
in the ground, pulled up by a misstep  and falling to a place where it gets
"put back"  inaccurately, onto the wrong plant.

What I find really reassuring, and pleasing, is the arrival of the internet
which allows comparison between clones,from a particularized area  which
historically was often as much as 150 years away from the original
collector's notes.

----- Original Message -----
From: <pbruggeman at TISCALI.NL>
To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Betr: Re: Arisaema hybrids


Tony,

I think liking or disliking hybrids is probably both largely based on
emotions,
if not, please enlighten me.

survives in hybrids. Foodcrops do not run that risk as much as ornamentals
because food has a much higher priority than preserving a nice garden plant
in its native habitat. What is a treasured plant for you and me, can be
a irritating weed for a native and not worth protecting. Think of how many
habitats are destroyed to produce food.....
are covered in Cites under Appendix C, I do believe many species should
be added to that list and the list itself should have a higher priority
status than an appendix so species like ostiolatum, vexillatum,
sarracenioides,
psittacus and many other rare endemics can be better protected. Many people
on the AEG probably don't know how fast Arisaema-habitats are destroyed.


I think that in China the rate of deforestation exceeds that rates of the
Brazilian rainforests.
SO, my position is that if Chen Yi is "saving" these things for us to grow.
And we get to take advantage of her efforts, it becomes our responsibility
tokeep adequate records if she is unable to.

In my earlier posting on this subject I already mentioned that some of,
what we now consider species, are the result of natural hybrids in the past
(as was mentioned by others on the AEG). It is one of the proven processes
that lead to speciation. However, the Arisaema-groups that are formed by
these processes are the most difficult for taxonomists to deal with so can
one blame taxonomists for disliking attempts by hybridizers to make their
work more complicated?

If it weren't for the natural hybridization we would have far less natural
"species" to begin with so yes, it is a important phenomenon. I don't think
artificial hybridization can or should be prevented, I only ask those who
like to have a go with it with Arisaema to do it with some common sense
and yes, preferably not with rarer species before they are established in
cultivation (but that is just me?). Tony, you propagate Arisaema through
tissue culture, why don't you try ALL the Chen Yi species you have bought
so you don't have to buy these wild-collected plants again? You make money
and without realizing it do nature a big favour. The species gets
established
with the result that there is more than enough material to hybridize with
and we are all happy (apart from Chen Yi....).


Does tissue culture enable this?

Yes, a large percentage of Arisaema species are highly polymorphic and as
a matter of fact, Arisaema is probably one of the most actively evolving
genera known

I didn't know this!  Generally accepted fact by those who know?  Certainly
Lycoris seems to be doing this also. From what I've read, there is a lot of
hybridization in nature among  what are called "cyto-races" where chromosome
numbers run 11, and 2n =22, but also 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. ...n





. Live and let live......  But, it's hard to be humble when one knows so
much.  Adam