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From: "P.Bruggeman" <pbruggeman at WISH.NET>
Subject: Re: any spontaneous hybridization?
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Ernie,

Maybe this is of help.

Murata in the introduction of his first article on A. ehimense states: "T=his
species (A. ehimense) is morphologically intermediate between serratum an=d
tosaense, and the spathe is very similar to that of the artificial hybrid=,
which suggests a hybrid origin between these 2 species for A. ehimense".

However, the specimens of A. ehimense Murata studied were collected in 2
different populations 50 km apart and Murata mentions the fact that ehime=nse
is isolated in flowering season and/or geographical distribution from bot=h
supposed "parents". A. tosaense occurs at a higher altitude in the
neighbourhood of ehimense according to the paper (which is in contrast to
the field observations by Barry Yinger) and serratum is not known to occu=r
anywhere near the 2 populations of A. ehimense (which is in accordance to
Barry's field observations). A. ehimense should flower approximately the
same time as serratum but 3 weeks later than A. tosaense in cultivation i=n
Ehime Prefecture.
Murata does however mention the possibility of long drooptips of the leav=es
for ehimense (which he says it shares with tosaense) and states that the
spadix is often entirely greenish or frequently dark purple in the upper
half.........
It should also be noted that the artificial hybrid was made between 2
parents not from Ehime but he still uses this hybrid to support his theor=y.

I haven't got the second article by Murata on ehimense " Allozyme analysi=s
of the hybrid origin of Arisaema ehimense (Araceae)" so I don't know what
"evidence" Murata puts forward to support his theory but maybe Susanne
Renner can comment on that article.

Pascal

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Arisaema Enthusiast Group (AEG) Discussion List (and other hardy
Aroids) [mailto:ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL]Namens Ernie O'Byrne
Verzonden: woensdag 13 maart 2002 11:16
Aan: ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL
Onderwerp: Re: any spontaneous hybridization?


What do intentional hybrids of the two species look like, i.e. the repute=d
parents, serratum and tosaense? Do they look like typical A. ehimense? Th=is
would seem to be a case in which DNA analysis could solve the controversy
very handily. Is that in the works so far as anyone knows?

Ernie O'Byrne
Northwest Garden Nursery
86813 Central Road
Eugene OR 97402-9284
USA
Phone: 541 935-3915
FAX: 541 935-0863
Eugene, Oregon is USDA Zone 8a on the map, but we can only grow Zone 7
plants reliably. Member of NARGS, SRGC, RHS, American Primula Society,
Meconopsis Group, Alpine-L, Arisaema-L, Hellebore Group


-----Original Message-----
From: Arisaema Enthusiast Group (AEG) Discussion List (and other hardy
Aroids) [mailto:ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL]On Behalf Of Andy Y.S. Wong
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 7:25 PM
To: ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL
Subject: Re: any spontaneous hybridization?


It should be noted that not everyone agrees that Ariaseama ehimense is a
hybrid of A. serratum and A. tosaense.  From what I have seen in nature
in Shikoku, in Ehime, the two alleged parents are not both present where
A. ehimense is abundant, and in any case do not overlap in bloom, with
tosaense flowering much later than serratum.  It is also hard to explain
the origin of the black spadix seen in many individuals of A. ehimense,
as the two supposed parents in the region do not show that
characteristic.

Barry R. Yinger
Pennsylvania, USA USDA Zone mid 6