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hardy  Aroids)" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL> Aroids)" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
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From: Adam Fikso <adam14113 at AMERITECH.NET>
Subject: Re: US permit
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Hello Eric.  Page is NOT part of the permit--It was only sent to apprise ==
you of part of the rest of the regulatory law.  It had not been =
mentioned in any of the very brief discussions involved.  Maybe I'm the =
only person who read the whole text of the law--but I thought it might =
be informative for you.  Not required as an insert in the package.  

See below. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Gouda" <e.j.gouda at UU.NL>
To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:02 AM
Subject: US permit


> Adam,
> 
> I got your ".. authorizes admissible nursery stock..." permit, =
including 
> the separate page with the text that a Phytosanitary -certificate is =
not 
> needed for small lots of seed (does this extra page belongs to this=2=0
> permit?).
> 
> Did they change the rules, because I got several shipments returned=2=0
> (e.g. that of Neil Jorgensen) with the reason "a phytosanitary 
> certificate is required". Or does it depend on the officer, whether he ==

> knows or doesn't?

No, Eric, The rules haven't changed.  The rules haven't changed.  If the ==
shipment that you're talking about was of seeds only, in the small =
quantities noted, it should not have been sent back. What apparently =
happened there is that the inspector doesn't even know his department's =
own rules.  When Bush remodeled the country in the name of protecting us ==
from Al Qaeda, he put the USDA Quarantine  Operations Plant Protection =
Service under Homeland Security Rewrote the rules to make them draconian ==
in their reach and strictness
, (in the name of efficiency) hired lots of young =
republican "eager beavers", wno might not have had any education behond =
high school let the old competent people go, rewrote the rules and this =
is part of what we've got and have to deal with.  Sorry.

I'd say, try to send them through again maybe with a small note =
indicating that these are being sent under the Small Lots of Seed  =
provision.  under 3l9.37-4  Par (d).  BUT there's no guarantee that the =
person in whose hand it falls will read it, or understand it 

 
> I will send your seeds including this extra paper to make this clear. =
If 
> I get more of this kind of permits, I will add that extra page, hoping ==

> this helps.
> 
> Best,   Eric--it might help-- and highlight the operative paragraph  =
that clarifies the matter with a colored pen?.  Good idea. !!!

It's too long that I've been embarassed and ashamed by our country.  I =
have hopes with Obama, and so far have been pleased.  


____               ____ E.J.Gouda at uu.nl _        =
http://botu07.bio.uu.nl
>  / ___|_ __(_) __   / ___| ___  _   _  __| | __ _    Tel.:+31(0)30 =
2539281
> | |__ | '__| |/ _| | |  _ / _ \| | | |/ _` |/ _` |   Office: =
Harvardlaan 2
> | |___| |  | | (_  | |_| | (_) | |_| | (_| | (_| |   NL - 3584 CV  =
Utrecht
>  \____|_|  |_|\__|  \____|\___/ \___/ \__,_|\__,_|   THE NETHERLANDS  =
(NL)
>  Curator of UNIVERSITY BOTANIC GARDENS,  PO Box 80.162, NL-3508 TD =
UTRECHT 
>  \ Listowner: Alpine-L  Arisaema-L Brom(elia)-L Aeonium-L Passiflora-L ==
/
>   \__ Bulbs-L Penstemon-L Trillium-L (@Nic.SurfNet.NL) & FloraPix.nl =
__/
> 
> =
===========================
===========================
=====================
> Search the Arisaema-L archives & subscription options -
> http://listserv.surfnet.nl/archives/Arisaema-l.html
> 
> Arisaema-L HOME & GALLERY: http://aeg.florapix.nl/
> 
> For help with this list, send an e-mail to the listowners at:
>         Arisaema-L-request at nic.surfnet.nl
> =
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<DIV>Hello Eric.&nbsp; Page is NOT part of the permit--It was only sent =
to 
apprise you of part of the rest of the regulatory law.&nbsp; It had not =
been 
mentioned in any of the very brief discussions involved.&nbsp; Maybe I'm ==
the 
only person who read the whole text of the law--but&nbsp;I thought it =
might be 
informative for you.&nbsp; Not required as an insert in the =
package.&nbsp; 
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>See below.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>From: "Eric Gouda" &lt;<A 
href="mailto:e.j.gouda at UU.NL">e.j.gouda at UU.NL</A>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>To: &lt;<A 
href="mailto:ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL">ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL</A>=&g=
t;</DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:02 AM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: US permit</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>&gt; Adam,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I got your ".. authorizes admissible =
nursery 
stock..." permit, including <BR>&gt; the separate page with the text =
that a 
Phytosanitary -certificate is not <BR>&gt; needed for small lots of seed ==
(does 
this extra page belongs to this <BR>&gt; permit?).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Did =
they 
change the rules, because I got several shipments returned <BR>&gt; =
(e.g. that 
of Neil Jorgensen) with the reason "a phytosanitary <BR>&gt; certificate ==
is 
required". Or does it depend on the officer, whether he <BR>&gt; knows =
or 
doesn't?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>No, Eric, The rules haven't changed.&nbsp; =
The rules 
haven't changed.&nbsp; If the shipment that you're talking about was of =
seeds 
only, in the small quantities noted, it should not have been sent 
back.&nbsp;What apparently happened there is that the inspector doesn't =
even 
know his department's&nbsp;own rules.&nbsp; When Bush remodeled the =
country in 
the name of protecting us from Al Qaeda, he put the USDA =
Quarantine&nbsp; 
Operations Plant Protection Service under Homeland Security Rewrote the =
rules to 
make them draconian in their reach and strictness</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT 
color=#0000ff>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
, (in the name of efficiency) hired lots of young republican "eager =
beavers", 
wno might not have had any education behond high school&nbsp;let the old ==

competent people go, rewrote the rules and this is part of what we've =
got and 
have to deal with.&nbsp; Sorry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>I'd say, try to send them through again mayb=e =

with&nbsp;a small note indicating that these are being sent under the =
Small Lots 
of&nbsp;Seed&nbsp;&nbsp;provision.&nbsp; under 3l9.37-4&nbsp; Par =
(d).&nbsp; BUT 
there's no guarantee that the person in whose hand&nbsp;it falls will =
read it, 
or understand it&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;<BR>&gt; I will send your seeds including this extra paper to ==
make 
this clear. If <BR>&gt; I get more of this kind of permits, I will add =
that 
extra page, hoping <BR>&gt; this helps.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 
Best,&nbsp;&nbsp;<STRONG> <FONT color=#0000ff>Eric--it might help-- =
and 
highlight the operative paragraph&nbsp;&nbsp;that clarifies the matter =
with a 
colored pen?.&nbsp; Good idea. !!!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff>It's too long that I've been =
embarassed 
and</FONT> ashamed by&nbsp;our country.&nbsp; I have hopes with Obama, =
and so 
far have been pleased.&nbsp; </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; 
____&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb==
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
____ <A href="mailto:E.J.Gouda at uu.nl">E.J.Gouda at uu.nl</A> 
_&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A 
href="http://botu07.bio.uu.nl">http://botu07.bio.uu.nl</A><BR>&gt;&nb=sp=
; / ___|_ 
__(_) __&nbsp;&nbsp; / ___| ___&nbsp; _&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; __| | __ 
_&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tel.:+31(0)30 2539281<BR>&gt;&nbsp;| |__ | '__| |/ =
_| | 
|&nbsp; _ / _ \| | | |/ _` |/ _` |&nbsp;&nbsp; Office: Harvardlaan 
2<BR>&gt;&nbsp;| |___| |&nbsp; | | (_&nbsp; | |_| | (_) | |_| | (_| | =
(_| 
|&nbsp;&nbsp; NL - 3584 CV&nbsp; Utrecht<BR>&gt;&nbsp; \____|_|&nbsp;=2=0
|_|\__|&nbsp; \____|\___/ \___/ \__,_|\__,_|&nbsp;&nbsp; THE =
NETHERLANDS&nbsp; 
(NL)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Curator of UNIVERSITY BOTANIC GARDENS,&nbsp; PO Box =
80.162, 
NL-3508 TD UTRECHT <BR>&gt;&nbsp; \ Listowner: Alpine-L&nbsp; Arisaema-L ==

Brom(elia)-L Aeonium-L Passiflora-L&nbsp; /<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; \__ =
Bulbs-L 
Penstemon-L Trillium-L (@Nic.SurfNet.NL) &amp; FloraPix.nl __/<BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt; 
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<BR>&gt; Arisaema-L HOME &amp; GALLERY: <A 
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