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Tue Jun 20 06:19:47 CEST 2006

hardy  Aroids)" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL> Aroids)" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
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From: Adam Fikso <irisman at AMERITECH.NET>
Subject: Re: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii-- further on "glaucous=
" 
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Hello Hal or Nancy:   On the basis of your message here, and the publishe=d
information--  there are apparently two forms of stewardsonii --one with =a
shiny underside to the leaf and another without.   Thanks for the input.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal or Nancy Robinson" <robyn82 at BELLSOUTH.NET>
To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii-- further on "glaucous"

> On the underside of the leaves of the Ariseama triphyllum stewardsonii =I
> ordered from Don Hackenbery  the surface is a light green shiny color.
> All the other native arisaemas are dull under the leaves.  There are
> several in bloom now and more to come but only that one plant has shiny
> under surface.
> The quinatum that was so large last year is a no show this year.  That =is
> what I get for taking its picture last year.  The green stems quinatums
> are coming up every where.
> I have been cleaning out pots and find several that have rotted over th=e
> spring.  No names but whatever happened to the large plant in the groun=d
> may have happened to the ones in the pots.  The tubers were there but
> soft.
> Well, more are growing in the seedex pots so there will be more arisaem=as
> in the woods than ever.
> Nancy Robinson  Tennessee
> Subject: Re: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii-- further on "glaucous"
>
>
>> Hello all;  I think that some of the confusion i the description of A.
>> stewardsonii derives from different meanings and usages for the term
>> "glaucous" in American English
>>
>> In the Merriam-Webster 1935 unabridged edition (which I prefer to most
>> other English dictionaries because it is so comprehensive and includes
>> many derivations and foreign terms--three different meanings are given.
>> l) it is a blue green color-- 2) a yellow-green color--3)  it is a wax=y
>> gray bloom on leaves often of a gray or bluish cast. (I am paraphrasin=g.)
>>
>> If-- in the Huttleston and other descriptions the waxy definition was
>> used then it is probably true that this never occurs on the underside =of
>> stewardsonii leaves.   However, all of my specimens with ribbed spathe=s
>> are a grayish blue-green (i.e., glaucous  color) on the underside of t=he
>> leaves. Not waxy, and not shiny, i.e., as in a matte (not glossy)
>> photographic print finish. A distinctly glaucous waxy surface covering
>> (bloom) does occur on the lower end of the spathe-tube of the  Chinese
>> Gaoligong--type concinnum that I have blooming right now, and to a gre=at
>> degree on the A. sikotak hybrid that is now setting fruit.  For those =who
>> are unfamiliar with my usage, the bluish waxy "bloom" I speak of is
>> similar in appearance to the "bloom" on blue grapes before they are
>> washed free of it, and the bloom on bearded iris leaves   Adam in
>> Glenview
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gusman Guy" <ggusman at ULB.AC.BE>
>> To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 1:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii
>>
>>
>> Christopher,
>> Thanks for this good in-depth look. As you say, the main character of
>> stewardsonii is found in conspicuous ribs along the spathe tube.
>> Interesting to note that you never saw very dark-spathed
>> stewardsonii in the wild. This point is mentioned by D.C. Huttleston (=in
>> his key, AROIDEANA, 1984): "Spathe tube strongly fluted; inside of spa=the
>> blade green with purple stripes mostly toward base, rarely wholly gree=n,
>> never wholly purple."
>> Sure that much remains to be learned about this group of plants.
>> Guy
>>
>>
>>>Guy-
>>>Thank you! The variability in the "common" triphyllum is tremendous! A
>>>fact that has been observed by most and much discussed on this list
>>>previously Looking at my own stewardsonii plants again tonight (curren=tly
>>>still in bloom), the leaf undersurfaces  are smooth (I think I
>>>incorrectly said glaucous earlier).  Perhaps also "shiny", but not eno=ugh
>>>that the leaf undersurface would seem distinctive to me if the plants
>>>were not in flower. Last week I was in upstate NY where I saw some
>>>stewardonii.  Most of the triphyllum triphyllum were finished flowerin=g,
>>>but there were a few late stragglers.  Interestingly, most of the late
>>>triphyllum seemed to have exceptionally dark spathes.  I also have a
>>>dark-spathed clone which emerges and blooms the same time as my
>>>stewardonii.  I have yet to get seed on either.
>>>   The spathe ribs seem to be the most obviously distinguishing
>>> characteristic.  I have never seen a triphyllum with partial or
>>> incomplete ribs, nor a very dark-spathed stewardsonii.  A fun and
>>> interesting group of plants, and still a lot to be learned.
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Gusman Guy
>>>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:52 AM
>>>To: ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL
>>>Subject: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii
>>>
>>>Hello,
>>>The problem of Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii is quite delicate and,=as
>>>seen from the recent discussions, is not that simple!
>>>
>>>Donald C. Huttleston who published papers on subsp. triphyllum,
>>>stewardsonii, pusillum and quinatum has exhaustively studied the compl=ex
>>>of A. triphyllum.
>>>- He selected the lectotype of stewardsonii in 1952 (N.L. Britton s.n.=,
>>>NY Herbarium n=B0 133835).
>>>- In the Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club (vol. 108(4): page 480,
>>>1981), he writes, about stewardsonii and pusillum:
>>>"leaves green, glossy".
>>>- In Aroideana (vol. 7(1): page15, 1984), he provides a key and writes=,
>>>about stewardsonii and pusillum:
>>>" the leaves are never glaucous beneath" (glaucous: covered with waxy
>>>bloom, a grayish powdery coating)
>>>
>>>In his PHD Thesis (at the University of NC), Miklos Treiber (1980) als=o
>>>speaks of the usual shiny aspect of the leaves undersides: "The leaves=of
>>>subsp. stewardsonii and pusillum dorsally are usually nitid and only
>>>rarely more or less glaucous."
>>>
>>>It is also enlightening to look at the Flora of North America, on the =web
>>>( http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=22200=0013 )
>>>where it is mentioned, again about stewardsonii and pusillum:
>>>"Leaves polished or lustrous beneath, not glaucous."
>>>
>>>A few years ago, I got plants of stewardsonii from Roy Herold (from
>>>Massachusetts). All of them have leaves whose aspect agrees with the
>>>above descriptions.
>>>
>>>However, there are areas where different subspecies can be found growi=ng
>>>together and hybridization cannot be excluded. That's maybe the origin=of
>>>some apparent discrepancies between original descriptions and plants
>>>grown in our collections.
>>>
>>>Guy Gusman
>>>
>>>
>