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From: Hal or Nancy Robinson <robyn82 at BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii-- further on "glaucous=
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On the underside of the leaves of the Ariseama triphyllum stewardsonii I
ordered from Don Hackenbery  the surface is a light green shiny color.  A=ll
the other native arisaemas are dull under the leaves.  There are several =in
bloom now and more to come but only that one plant has shiny under surfac=e.
The quinatum that was so large last year is a no show this year.  That is
what I get for taking its picture last year.  The green stems quinatums  =are
coming up every where.
I have been cleaning out pots and find several that have rotted over the
spring.  No names but whatever happened to the large plant in the ground =may
have happened to the ones in the pots.  The tubers were there but soft.
Well, more are growing in the seedex pots so there will be more arisaemas=in
the woods than ever.
Nancy Robinson  Tennessee
Subject: Re: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii-- further on "glaucous"


> Hello all;  I think that some of the confusion i the description of A.
> stewardsonii derives from different meanings and usages for the term
> "glaucous" in American English
>
> In the Merriam-Webster 1935 unabridged edition (which I prefer to most
> other English dictionaries because it is so comprehensive and includes
> many derivations and foreign terms--three different meanings are given.
> l) it is a blue green color-- 2) a yellow-green color--3)  it is a waxy
> gray bloom on leaves often of a gray or bluish cast. (I am paraphrasing=.)
>
> If-- in the Huttleston and other descriptions the waxy definition was u=sed
> then it is probably true that this never occurs on the underside of
> stewardsonii leaves.   However, all of my specimens with ribbed spathes
> are a grayish blue-green (i.e., glaucous  color) on the underside of th=e
> leaves. Not waxy, and not shiny, i.e., as in a matte (not glossy)
> photographic print finish. A distinctly glaucous waxy surface covering
> (bloom) does occur on the lower end of the spathe-tube of the  Chinese
> Gaoligong--type concinnum that I have blooming right now, and to a grea=t
> degree on the A. sikotak hybrid that is now setting fruit.  For those w=ho
> are unfamiliar with my usage, the bluish waxy "bloom" I speak of is
> similar in appearance to the "bloom" on blue grapes before they are was=hed
> free of it, and the bloom on bearded iris leaves   Adam in Glenview
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gusman Guy" <ggusman at ULB.AC.BE>
> To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 1:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii
>
>
> Christopher,
> Thanks for this good in-depth look. As you say, the main character of
> stewardsonii is found in conspicuous ribs along the spathe tube.
> Interesting to note that you never saw very dark-spathed
> stewardsonii in the wild. This point is mentioned by D.C. Huttleston (i=n
> his key, AROIDEANA, 1984): "Spathe tube strongly fluted; inside of spat=he
> blade green with purple stripes mostly toward base, rarely wholly green=,
> never wholly purple."
> Sure that much remains to be learned about this group of plants.
> Guy
>
>
>>Guy-
>>Thank you! The variability in the "common" triphyllum is tremendous! A
>>fact that has been observed by most and much discussed on this list
>>previously Looking at my own stewardsonii plants again tonight (current=ly
>>still in bloom), the leaf undersurfaces  are smooth (I think I incorrec=tly
>>said glaucous earlier).  Perhaps also "shiny", but not enough that the
>>leaf undersurface would seem distinctive to me if the plants were not i=n
>>flower. Last week I was in upstate NY where I saw some stewardonii.  Mo=st
>>of the triphyllum triphyllum were finished flowering, but there were a =few
>>late stragglers.  Interestingly, most of the late triphyllum seemed to
>>have exceptionally dark spathes.  I also have a dark-spathed clone whic=h
>>emerges and blooms the same time as my stewardonii.  I have yet to get
>>seed on either.
>>   The spathe ribs seem to be the most obviously distinguishing
>> characteristic.  I have never seen a triphyllum with partial or
>> incomplete ribs, nor a very dark-spathed stewardsonii.  A fun and
>> interesting group of plants, and still a lot to be learned.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Gusman Guy
>>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:52 AM
>>To: ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL
>>Subject: Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii
>>
>>Hello,
>>The problem of Arisaema triphyllum stewardsonii is quite delicate and, =as
>>seen from the recent discussions, is not that simple!
>>
>>Donald C. Huttleston who published papers on subsp. triphyllum,
>>stewardsonii, pusillum and quinatum has exhaustively studied the comple=x
>>of A. triphyllum.
>>- He selected the lectotype of stewardsonii in 1952 (N.L. Britton s.n.,=NY
>>Herbarium n=B0 133835).
>>- In the Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club (vol. 108(4): page 480,
>>1981), he writes, about stewardsonii and pusillum:
>>"leaves green, glossy".
>>- In Aroideana (vol. 7(1): page15, 1984), he provides a key and writes,
>>about stewardsonii and pusillum:
>>" the leaves are never glaucous beneath" (glaucous: covered with waxy
>>bloom, a grayish powdery coating)
>>
>>In his PHD Thesis (at the University of NC), Miklos Treiber (1980) also
>>speaks of the usual shiny aspect of the leaves undersides: "The leaves =of
>>subsp. stewardsonii and pusillum dorsally are usually nitid and only
>>rarely more or less glaucous."
>>
>>It is also enlightening to look at the Flora of North America, on the w=eb
>>( http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=222000=013 )
>>where it is mentioned, again about stewardsonii and pusillum:
>>"Leaves polished or lustrous beneath, not glaucous."
>>
>>A few years ago, I got plants of stewardsonii from Roy Herold (from
>>Massachusetts). All of them have leaves whose aspect agrees with the ab=ove
>>descriptions.
>>
>>However, there are areas where different subspecies can be found growin=g
>>together and hybridization cannot be excluded. That's maybe the origin =of
>>some apparent discrepancies between original descriptions and plants gr=own
>>in our collections.
>>
>>Guy Gusman
>>
>>