[Trillium-l] Monilium

Tony Avent Tony at plantdelights.com
Mon Jan 2 23:30:57 CET 2012


Robin:

There is obviously something going on with our moniliums that has caused some type of arrested development...the question now is what?   This discussion reminds of the wonderful Abraham Lincoln quote "People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."

Tony Avent
Plant Delights Nursery @
Juniper Level Botanic Garden
9241 Sauls Road
Raleigh, North Carolina  27603  USA
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________________________________
From: trillium-l-bounces at science.uu.nl [mailto:trillium-l-bounces at science.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Robin Graham Bell
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 5:24 PM
To: Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other Woodland plants)
Subject: Re: [Trillium-l] The Asa Gray bulletin - Agassiz Association. Gray Memorial Botanical Chapter - Google Books

Yes Richard, it did come back looking pretty much as it looked when originally found. Still no flower & still no photo at my end. I'm not sure it is a sextillium as you put it, even though that is what it looked like. After looking at it this past spring, I came to the conclusion that the flower had aborted & the upper whorl of "leaves" were the sepals, even though they were almost the same size as normal leaves & marbled.....maybe you could post the photo if you have a good enough one? The plant Richard is referring to is a T. luteum, which brings up another question that I have: are there any known doubles or similar flower variants of sessile trilliums?
When I first started collecting oddities many years back, & before I figured out how to do it properly, I would collect quadrilliums & bring them home. Maybe about 4 over the first few years, but then I saw they always seemed to come back normal so, although I would, & still do see them more often than any other oddity, I don't collect them any more. I do seem to recall that someone on this list(?) said they had a quadrillium that had 4 petals permanently, is that right? Could that be confirmed? I also found a variegated grand that was spectacular, half the leaf was a bright sparkling gold & the other half a normal green, that too, came back as boring normal. I tend to feel that stress/damage produces only short term changes & the plants always revert to normal if the stressor is removed. Anything that reappears as a permanent feature is very likely to be genetic. I'm not at all sure that DNA is much influenced by stress of any sort, mutations seem to occur slowly with little help from the environment.......except radiation & some extreme chemical treatments....... epigenetic effects are all about the environment.
The plant, monillium, you showed is also interesting Tony, could it be that it has been arrested in a state of juvenilia? That is that it/they have lost the ability to progress to adulthood, like many politicians? The leaves all look quite juvenile but it is hard to determine the scale.
I would also like to apologize to the list.....I don't know why but my messages seem to become malformed when I post them. They don't leave me with these odd jumps to a new paragraph in the middle of a sentence. I find it really annoying & if anyone knows why this is happening, or can troubleshoot it for me, I would be very appreciative.

Robin Bell, Ithaca NY zone 5.
On Jan 2, 2012, at 11:06 AM, Richard Vagner wrote:

Robin I found the picture of the sextillium we found a few years ago. Was wondering if it came back with the full complement of petals and leaves? I have a number of pictures of quadtrilliums and I think I have the locations in one of my notebooks. May go back and see if I can find them this Spring.



On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Robin Graham Bell <rgb2 at cornell.edu<mailto:rgb2 at cornell.edu>> wrote:
Hi Russ, Perhaps you should be applying for the unpaid, honorary, but entirely honorable position of official Trillium- l librarian/archivist Russ? Great to see you dig out that reference & be able to send it to the list. I think...not sure....that the reference to the number of petals I had was in Tom Patricks' thesis but haven't had a chance to look for it there. Even if it was, he did not show the actual dissection that you did so that was nice to see. When I looked at Fred's collection, I recall being impressed by the range of forms that were present in the multiplexes & also thinking that some of them looked as though they had fewer petals than others. It was hard to tell because of the great array of shapes the multi's had, some were very contorted & twisted & of course I didn't pull any apart. However, maybe it would be possible to get Brian to pull some off the Rats Hollow population & actually count what is there. I suspect that there may be a range of different peta
 l numbers from 6 up to the 30 plus you have shown. Not sure what it would say about the genetics but it would be interesting.
       Robin Bell, zone 5, Ithaca NY.
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