[Trillium-l] Trillium erectum x flexipes

Fern Hill fernhill at voicenet.com
Sun May 15 04:03:46 CEST 2011


Russ  just a comment - The first blog you mention -Al Gibson's has a side 
view of a flower - the next-to-last - that looks odd for the erectums I 
know.  Al's picture shows a strongly ribbed ovary and prominent divergent 
stigmas.  The erectum I know are generally much less strongly ribbed and the 
stigmas seem less prominent.  The ovary pictured in side view seems to me 
closer to rugelii in appearance though the flower's appearance above the 
leaves argues against this.  Because of that I mention the similarity of the 
ovaries only as a comparison - not as an identification.

In the second blog the stigma and ovary of the flower from Ohio (not the one 
from the internet for its provinance is not known) differ from what I am 
familiar with as erectum in that the stigmas are quite prominent and the 
ovary is strongly ridged.   It is a nice photo though.  I like the 
backlighting.


Although some sort of hybridization is possible;  for instance I was talking 
with a violet expert today who said that Viola pedata is a decaploid that 
resulted from ancient hybridization between no less than 4 (some only 
distantly related) species, I am not sure that hybridity is the simplest 
explanation for color swarms.  Isolated trillium colonies must undergo some 
degree of inbreeding to survive.  In the process I see nothing that would 
prevent mutation or, perhaps more likely, the action of transpsons (jumping 
genes) during reproduction that could induce varying degrees of color to be 
expressed in the petals.  I think single point mutations or the effect of 
transposons would be unlikely to strongly influence ovary shape and stigma 
structure.  Hybridization should produce an intermediate structure that is 
not evident in the blog pictures.

The cross between a sessile and a pedicillate trillium is very unlikely. 
Poof of a cross between these groups depends on much more than production of 
an ofspring - which could be due to accidental selfing during the process of 
crossing.

John Gyer  Clarksboro  NJ  USA


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Grahams" <eldergrahams at me.com>
To: "Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other Woodland plants)" 
<trillium-l at science.uu.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:35 PM
Subject: [Trillium-l] Trillium erectum x flexipes


>I am not sure the subject Trillium has been found in Ohio but these two 
>bloggers want to believe they have.
>
> http://floraofohio.blogspot.com/2011/05/my-date-with-red-trillium.html
>
> http://trekkingohio.blogspot.com/2011/05/terectum-x-tflexipes-wild-hybrid.html
>
> The image in the second site that was borrowed is on the  Rare Plants 
> website. I do not see anything in any of the discussions that is all that 
> persuasive that what is being shown is a hybrid or that if it is a hybrid 
> that the cross would be for certain erectum x flexipes, especially when 
> the seed parents are of unknown origin as the ones at Rare Plants seem to 
> be.
>
> I have now found at least 3 nurseries listing seedlings of a parent that 
> is purported to be a hybrid of erectum and flexipes...(albeit the 
> descriptions are quite different...) Maybe I am too skeptical?
>
> All Best,
> Russ
>
>
>
> Russell Graham, Purveyor of Plants, Salem, OR, Zone 8 (7)
>
>
>
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