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Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other Woodland pl= Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other Woodland pl=
Sun Aug 16 14:38:15 CEST 1998


ants)"  <TRILLIUM-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL> <TRILLIUM-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
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From: Addison & Richardson <bedrock.gardeners at SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Coursol translation and questions:
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Thanks Brian for the helpful translation address...here is another rough
translation - perhaps a bit more colloquial.

I continue to be puzzled and the quotation that Majella included =in
his posting only increased my puzzlement.  I have interspersed my comment=s/
questions in the text translation...

>Sorry for the delay.  After checking the woods south of Mont Lau=rier, I
>noticed, too, that the white trillium had red fruit.  Marie-Victorin, in
>his Flore Laurentienne says the same thing about the fruit of the white
>trillium.  I had never noticed the color of the fruit of this species.

INTERJECTION:
1. Majella and others in the area seem to agree that grandiflorum
has long since dropped its fruit, so why would the red fruit on the trill=ium
on the south side of Mt. Laurier be grandiflorum?
2. Continuing this line, Coursol says he has never noticed the
colour of the fruit of grandiflorum before.  Since there are obviously no
flowers that indicate that these specific with the red pods plants are
grandiflorum, why is the immediate assumption that they are T. gr.?  It i=s
possible that there are some T. erectum in the area.  The lateness of the
pods would, given Majella's information about pod availability, suggest e=rectum.
3. Interesting that without any observational information, Courso=l
relies on Victorin to tell him the name of the plant.  However, that
assertion by Frere Marie-Victorin is now part of what is being
analysed...(i.e. the kind of textual analysis that John Geyer is
doing...both tracing who copied from whom and who used herbarian specimen=s,
who used observation, etc.) and as such can't be used to prove that T.
grandiflorum has red berries.


>
>I think what we have here is a genetic anomaly which is frequent in this
>type.  The color red encourages dissemination by animals since they
>notice it readily.  Since this anomaly was beneficial for the species,
>the mutant probably adapted better to our climate.

INTERJECTION:

Rereading Case, there is no mention of dissemination by animals.
Rather he states (p26.) that the "seeds of trilliums are myrmecochorous,
that is attracting and being dispersed by ants."
Am curious about where the hypothesis comes from re: colour red o=f
trillium pod playing role in dessemination because animals notice it
readily? and postulation of anomaly benefiting species so the development=of
mutant?

Interesting that on page 33, Case has a heading "Mutations and
Abnormalities" and he does state that "Unusual variants, forms, or mutant=s
of T. gr. have been described many times in the literatures. Most of thes=e
variants have appeared in NY, Mich and Quebec."
he does not mention red seed pods, but rather palnts with green
stripes, abnormal petiolate leaves, extra whorls of leaves, no leaves..gr=een
petals, no petals, knots of sepals, tufts of petal like leaves, etc...


question re: Majella's answer to Eva's question :

>Hi,
>I generally do not pay attention on the fruit form for 2 reasons:
>1- I collect many seeds from labelled plants in our propagators beds
>2- in the wild, I use the time priod of collection, plus the shape of
>the leaves
>to differentiate

Since it really was not emphasized during the long thread, how ea=sy
is it to differentiate grandiflorum and erectum on the basis of late summ=er
leaves?

Majella, can you give us a detailed description of how you
differentiate the two, since this might help all of us when we are out in
the woods?

Lois Addison



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