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Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other Woodland pl= Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other Woodland pl=
Sat Aug 1 04:18:16 CEST 1998


ants)"  <TRILLIUM-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL> <TRILLIUM-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: "Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other Woodland pl=
From: Majella Larochelle <vivaces at SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Red Berry Thread -Whoa
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George Carlton Denton wrote:
>
> Message text written by "Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other
> Woodland plants)"
> >   Whoa......
>         what we have right now are some seed pods which don't seem to m=atch
> other that we are used to. Anecdotal info that the flowers were
> grandiflorum. References to red-berried grandiflorum that appear in sev=eral
> books, but about which nothing is clear..i.e. was there an orginal mist=ake
> and no one who wrote after bothered to actually verify the claim - or i=s it
> common in that area?
>         We are at the beginning, the very beginning.  Caution and
> methodical
> analysis seems to be called for.  I hesitiate to say it, but there seem=s a
> rush to judgment.  Important to remember we have only a very small part=of
> the puzzle at the monent...many more parts are needed nefore we know
> anything for sure.
> <
> Hi Lois
> This cautionary statement is needed. I was all for rushing along until =I
> closely examined one of these red berries which has brought me to a ful=l
> stop.
> Obvious T.grandiflorum plants in that area need to be tagged next sprin=g
> and then the berry inspected later. This will be the only foolproof met=hod
> of deciding whether the red berried grandiflorum exists but who will
> adjudicate.
> Majella is certain they do exist so I am keeping an open mind for the n=ext
> year.
> Carl.
> Leeds  Yorkshire  England.

Hi,
This thread is so amazing that I start to wonder what is the rarity is a
white pod Trillium (grandiflorum and erectum)
1- Back from a week away, I walk in the woods, plus in my nursery raised
beds where I keep my plants separated and tagged properly.
Both species are red berried.

2-Berries of T, grandiflorum are dropped since the first of July here
Berries of Trillium erectum are still on, some firm , some others mushy.
There is a 2-3 weeks difference in the dropping of this 2 species.
at one point, it is difficult to recognize the 2 species with the berry,
but with the leaf shape, you can ascertain the name compairing the wild
collected plants with our nursery plants.

3- Why is there still T. erectum in fruit in our area, and not the the
valleys of Montreal and Ottawa.
I assume that it is beacause they grow in the montains, here.
And even in the montains, you can notice micro-climate, so it gives me
the following when I collect (last year datas) 80% of the collection is
done within 2 weeks, mid-august, and 20% is done until mid-september (a
month)

4- Now the big surprise for me is that I do not know a white berry
trillium in Canada.
So I checked with botanists here and White berry trilliums is rare in
Quebec, except for the first weeks of berry formation on T. grandiflorum
This is confirmed by the 3 main books we used in Quebec and Ontario
La Flore laurentienne of Marie Victorin
Plantes sauvages printani=E8res by Gis=E8le Lamoureux, which is the
authority here on wild flowers
and surprise: Forest plants of Central (and Eastern) Ontario by Chambers
and als, 1996, pp 164-165

All these 3 books mention red, purple turning black berries. These
covers a 1000  kilometers area at the least.

So I do beleive that there are white berries for these 2 species. I have
seen them when I collected them, down south in Virginia and North
Carolina mountains. They were ready and turning mushy still green
is it another day, another area , another climate?

So the only berry color I live on is red for now whenever I visit the
most western parks of Ontario or the further northeast woods of Quebec
And we still call them T. grandiflorum and T. erectum.

May be somebody knowledgable in geology can explain us how the chemical
components of the rocks can affect the anthoxanthins and anthocyanins
pigments of some plants. I have seen, once, big differences from an
analysis of the chemical content of the Appalachians (3000 kilometers
long) between the south and north.

Are we more advanced now?
I am just relating here what I see whether it is beleivable or not.

Happy findings!

Majella Larochelle



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