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From: Barry Yinger <asiatica at NNI.COM>
Subject: Re: Kelly papers, was Asarum references
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It should be noted that Kelly's papers are extremely well-done and
should have been the basis for the treatment of Asarum (in the broad
sense) in the Flora of North America.  The earlier American work of
Gaddy and Blomquist did not view the genus in an international context,
and did not relate the American species to the far greater number of
species outside the eastern United States.  For reasons that I have
never seen presented, a regional view of the genus that is out of step
with the work of nearly all researchers in the genus throughout the
world was published in the FNA, and the fully integrated research of
Dr. Kelly was put aside.  The treatment of the genus in the FNA is at
odds with the current view of the genus in Asia, a view that I believe
is correct.

On Apr 2, 2004, at 11:50 PM, Pacific Rim wrote:

> Having stuck my neck out this far, here are the papers of Lawrence
> Kelly.
> With these details anyone can look them up.
>
> 1. Phylogenetic Relationships in Aristolochiaceae. Lawrence M. Kelly
> and
> Favio Gonzalez. Systematic Botany (2003), 28(2) pp. 236-249.
>
> 2. Taxonomy of Asarum Section Asarum (Aristolochiaceae). Lawrence M.
> Kelly.
> Systematic Botany (2001), 26(1): pp. 17-53.
>
> 3. Phylogenetic Relationships in Asarum (Aristolochiaceae) Based on
> Morphology and ITS Sequences. Lawrence M. Kelly. American Journal of
> Botany
> 85(10): 1454-1467. 1998.
>
> 4. A Cladistic Analysis of Asarum (Aristolochiaceae) and Implications
> for
> the Evolution of Herkogamy. Lawrence M. Kelly. American Journal of
> Botany
> 84(12): 1752-1765. 1997.
>
> For what it's worth, herkogamy means having flowers that contain male
> and
> female parts, but with space between them that somewhat hinders
> self-fertilization.
>
> Paige Woodward
> paige at hillkeep.ca
> www.hillkeep.ca
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pacific Rim" <paige at hillkeep.ca>
> To: "Arisaema-L" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:02 PM
> Subject: Fw: Asarum references
>
>
>> Petra Schmidt is right and I am foolishly wrong: I wonder why I
>> suddenly
>> thought that the Flora of North America treatment of Aristolochiaceae
> wasn't
>> out yet. But that is boring.
>>
>> Shaking my head, hoping that the moths fly out, I still think that the
>> papers of Lawrence Kelly are stimulating, and would be interested to
>> hear
>> from anyone who agrees or disagrees.
>>
>> The Flora of North America and Flora of China treatments, if overlaid,
> would
>> be out of register.
>>
>> A book that discussed taxonomical considerations and, regardless,
>> offered
>> myriad photographs of all parts of every putative taxon, would be a
>> treasure. It is this sort of thing, I imagine, that Barry was hoping
>> to
>> write.
>>
>> Paige Woodward
>> paige at hillkeep.ca
>> www.hillkeep.ca
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Petra Schmidt" <petra at PLANTDELIGHTS.COM>
>> To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: Asarum references
>>
>>
>>> Check the homepage of Flora of China project (www.fna.org/china/)
>>> family Aristolochiaceae, genus Asarum, lots of info there.
>>> Also check the Fora of North America, Vol.3, family Aristolochiaceae,
>>> already published, for info on natives.
>>>
>>> Now - regarding arisaema, I saw a wonderful A. hainanense at MO
> recently,
>>> not yet in bloom, but a nice healthy potted plant of it, collected in
> Viet
>>> Nam (no, MO doesn't have extras).  Here at PDN, we have had great
> success
>>> with overwintering A. balansae (also from Viet Nam), now 3 years in
>>> the
>>> ground.  A. cordatum, on the other hand, is not hardy but we have a
>>> nice
>>> specimen just emerging inside the greenhouse...a sure sign that our
> spring
>>> has arrived.
>>> Petra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Pacific Rim" <paige at HILLKEEP.CA>
>>> To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:20 PM
>>> Subject: Asarum references, was gnat pollinators
>>>
>>>
>>>> About references for Asarum and its kin:
>>>>
>>>> 1. There is, or was, a Japanese book about Asarum s.l. offered on
>> Barry's
>>>> Asiatica website. Periodically I attempt to order it but get no
> response
>>>> (though I have had replies about other things).  Is the book still
>>> available
>>>> and if so will you ship it to Canada, Barry?
>>>>
>>>> 2. What about the papers by Lawrence Kelly, formerly of Cornell
>> University
>>>> and now of the New York Botanical Garden? He has been working on the
>>>> treatment of Asarum/Hexastylis for the Flora of North America, I
>> believe.
>>> I
>>>> am no botanist but based on his several published papers he appears
>>>> to
>> be
>>>> familiar not only with the physical traits, large and small, of the
>>> various
>>>> possible taxa but also with the problems and traps of cladistics.
>>> Comments,
>>>> anyone?
>>>>
>>>> Paige Woodward
>>>> paige at hillkeep.ca
>>>> www.hillkeep.ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Barry Yinger" <asiatica at NNI.COM>
>>>> To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:53 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: gnat pollinators was: What is the name of this plant?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Jim,
>>>>
>>>> There really isn't anything.  Unfortunately, with my manuscript,
>>>> field
>>>> notes, slides, and library gone, I don't know if I have the energy
>>>> to
>>>> start over on the project.  But it should be done, and I don't know
>>>> anyone else to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Barry
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 2, 2004, at 3:47 PM, Jim McClements, Dover, DE z6 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  In a message dated 4/1/04 6:10:14 PM, asiatica at NNI.COM writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Various species are more or less discriminating about their
>>>>>  pollinator(s). The plants in subgenera Asarum and Asiasarum are
>>>>>  generally less discriminating, and those in subgenera Heterotropa
>>>>>  (Japan and China) and Hexastylis (America and maybe China) are
>>>>> more
>>>>>  specific. Chinese and Japanese species in subgenus Heterotropa
> rarely
>>>>>  spontaneously set seed in cultivation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Barry
>>>>>
>>>>>  Is there anything approaching a comprehensive key/description/book
> on
>>>>> the whole Asarum genus? I know that you were working on the idea a
> few
>>>>> years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>  If nothing in one place, what would you recommend as a group of
>>>>> resources, particularly the Chinese species that Chen Yi sells and
> the
>>>>> NA species?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Jim McClements
>>>>>  50 S. Prestwick Ct, Dover, Delaware, 19904, USA, Zone 7a
>>>
>>>
>>
>