No subject

[Arisaema Enthusiast Group (AEG) Discussion List (and other=]

hardy  Aroids)" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL> Aroids)" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: "Arisaema Enthusiast Group (AEG) Discussion List (and other=
From: irisman <irisman at AMERITECH.NET>
Subject: Re: any spontaneous hybridization?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transf er-Encoding: 7bit

Re :  hybridization of Arisaema over eons--  and evolution of the forms s=o
produced,   your comments are very true--This is what I meant by the idea=of
species being "man-made"  The concept is often regarded as having a "real="
referent  out there in the plant world, and it does but it is not inviola=te.
We need taxonomists   to put order into what we see and treasure, but
classifications  are a first step to a further  understanding., and must =be
regarded as temporary, when the holotypes and the herbaria are subject to
the ravages of time, war, neglect, etc.,  and technology requires new
formulations of the idea of what constitutes a "species" .

I am glad to see observations cited here about how these plants appear in
the field.  I know of a few taxonomists who would not recognize the plant=s
they  are familiar with , if they saw them growing, because they only kno=w
them from the dessicated forms that are flattened between pages of folder=s
in the herbarium.

I think this group is  pretty neat!

Adam Fikso, 3620 Glenview Rd., Glenview, IL 60025.  USDA Zone 5a but dow=n
to -25F at least once in the last 20 years.






----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Bell" <rgb2 at CORNELL.EDU>
To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: any spontaneous hybridization?


>         I would like to chime in with a couple of comments based on
> no knowledge of any Arisaemias anywhere in the wild but here, upstate
> NY with triphylum & its congeners. For ehimense, hybridisation in the
> wild could have taken place anytime within the last, well, shall we
> say, 10,000 yrs. If it happened, the cross almost certainly would
> have undergone its own pattern of evolution since then, more if it
> were 10k, less if it were 5k or 1k yrs ago & so on. There is no
> reason to believe it should now be distributed near/between its
> putative parents, flower at the same time, or that it should not have
> some unique features unless the hybridization took place last week (
> geological time of course ). With time it could be barely
> recognisable in its provenance. The only way this could really be
> resolved, as with so many other species/hybrids questions, is by
> molecular analysis & even then one needs parameters that have barely
> been defined.
>         Perhaps the point is that it can be very difficult to
> recognise what is happening in the field & that taxonomic criteria
> are often not based on any knowledge of their real biological status.
> I would be amazed if some of the evolutionary history of Arisaemias
> does not include interspecific hybrids as well as most other
> processes that lead to speciation in plants.
>         Since for me the appeal of Arums generally is related to
> their bizarre/striking character, ( agree that sikokianum is
> beautiful ), I am all for seeing what the hybridisers can produce
> within & between species.
>         Spring in the air here, crocus, cyclamen & anemones doing their
dance.
>         Robin Bell, Ithaca, NY. USA
>