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From: "Andy Y.S. Wong" <asiatica at NNI.COM>
Subject: Re: any spontaneous hybridization?
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I have seens many hundreds of Arisaema tosaense in Shikoku and here, and
I have not observed the very prominent drip tips on the leaflets of
tosaense mentioned by Murata.

Both in Shikoku and here in Pennsylvania, serratum is early, ehimense a
week or two later, and tosaense about three weeks later.  I have seen
tosaense in bloom in the wild in Ehime in late June.

I don't think that tosaense is isolated by elevation; I recall seeing it
in many sites at various altitudes.  I have never seen serratum and
tosanese in a mixed population in the wild.

Barry Yinger (with thanks to Andy Wong for his observations of plants
here)

There is a photo of A. ehimense on our nursery website
www.asiaticanursery.com.

Pennsylvania, USA USDA Zone mid 6



"P.Bruggeman" wrote:
>
> Ernie,
>
> Maybe this is of help.
>
> Murata in the introduction of his first article on A. ehimense states: ="This
> species (A. ehimense) is morphologically intermediate between serratum =and
> tosaense, and the spathe is very similar to that of the artificial hybr=id,
> which suggests a hybrid origin between these 2 species for A. ehimense".
>
> However, the specimens of A. ehimense Murata studied were collected in =2
> different populations 50 km apart and Murata mentions the fact that ehi=mense
> is isolated in flowering season and/or geographical distribution from b=oth
> supposed "parents". A. tosaense occurs at a higher altitude in the
> neighbourhood of ehimense according to the paper (which is in contrast =to
> the field observations by Barry Yinger) and serratum is not known to oc=cur
> anywhere near the 2 populations of A. ehimense (which is in accordance =to
> Barry's field observations). A. ehimense should flower approximately th=e
> same time as serratum but 3 weeks later than A. tosaense in cultivation=in
> Ehime Prefecture.
> Murata does however mention the possibility of long drooptips of the le=aves
> for ehimense (which he says it shares with tosaense) and states that th=e
> spadix is often entirely greenish or frequently dark purple in the uppe=r
> half.........
> It should also be noted that the artificial hybrid was made between 2
> parents not from Ehime but he still uses this hybrid to support his the=ory.
>
> I haven't got the second article by Murata on ehimense " Allozyme analy=sis
> of the hybrid origin of Arisaema ehimense (Araceae)" so I don't know wh=at
> "evidence" Murata puts forward to support his theory but maybe Susanne
> Renner can comment on that article.
>
> Pascal
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Arisaema Enthusiast Group (AEG) Discussion List (and other hardy
> Aroids) [mailto:ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL]Namens Ernie O'Byrne
> Verzonden: woensdag 13 maart 2002 11:16
> Aan: ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL
> Onderwerp: Re: any spontaneous hybridization?
>
> What do intentional hybrids of the two species look like, i.e. the repu=ted
> parents, serratum and tosaense? Do they look like typical A. ehimense? =This
> would seem to be a case in which DNA analysis could solve the controver=sy
> very handily. Is that in the works so far as anyone knows?
>
> Ernie O'Byrne
> Northwest Garden Nursery
> 86813 Central Road
> Eugene OR 97402-9284
> USA
> Phone: 541 935-3915
> FAX: 541 935-0863
> Eugene, Oregon is USDA Zone 8a on the map, but we can only grow Zone 7
> plants reliably. Member of NARGS, SRGC, RHS, American Primula Society,
> Meconopsis Group, Alpine-L, Arisaema-L, Hellebore Group
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arisaema Enthusiast Group (AEG) Discussion List (and other hardy
> Aroids) [mailto:ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL]On Behalf Of Andy Y.S. Wong
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 7:25 PM
> To: ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL
> Subject: Re: any spontaneous hybridization?
>
> It should be noted that not everyone agrees that Ariaseama ehimense is =a
> hybrid of A. serratum and A. tosaense.  From what I have seen in nature
> in Shikoku, in Ehime, the two alleged parents are not both present wher=e
> A. ehimense is abundant, and in any case do not overlap in bloom, with
> tosaense flowering much later than serratum.  It is also hard to explai=n
> the origin of the black spadix seen in many individuals of A. ehimense,
> as the two supposed parents in the region do not show that
> characteristic.
>
> Barry R. Yinger
> Pennsylvania, USA USDA Zone mid 6