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hardy  Aroids)" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL> Aroids)" <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
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From: irisman <irisman at AMERITECH.NET>
Subject: Re: A. fargesii  to A. franchetianum?
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Pascal.  I very much like the presentation of your reasoning.   I wish th=e
iris perople concerned with species were so dedicated.   The question of
hybrid origin of some of these will probably have to wait for karyotype o=r
DNA studies.     Adam in Glenview, IL


----- Original Message -----
From: "P.Bruggeman" <pbruggeman at WISH.NET>
To: <ARISAEMA-L at NIC.SURFNET.NL>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: A. fargesii to A. franchetianum?


> This is not an easy one to accept...fargesii and franchetianum as being
the
> same???????
>
> fargesii blooms earlier (May in NC) and tends to clump
> easily...franchetianum blooms later (late June-July) and doesn't clump
> easily...not to mention the differences in leaf shape and thickness and
the
> spathe differences....what characters are you using to lump these two
> together?
>
> I haven't looked at the archives yet and I will be sure to do so...for
now,
> I'm suprised about the lumping of the species...are you publishing this
> somewhere soon...we, in the world of nursery businesses, want to keep u=p
> with what taxonomists present.
>
>
> Dear Petra,
>
> I can imagine this not being easy to accept but I am rather surprised
about
> the reactions considering the fact that Wilbert's initial mail about th=is
> subject hardly resulted in any response. Regarding the clumping habit I
can
> say that every form I grow of franchetianum/fargesii
> in my collection (and I grow 7 different clones in pots) is a good
clumper.
> The minimal amount of bulblets per tuber each year is 4 but some clones
> easily produce 12 bulblets per year. You must however realise that you
base
> your opinion on the 2 clones you grow. With a species that is appearant=ly
as
> widespread as franchetianum is, it is inevitable that the various clone=s
> react differently depending on their specific habit in the wild so to m=e,
> flowering time and clumping habit are cultural observations and not
> taxonomic observations. I have been to Sikkim this spring and I have se=en
> speciosum-clones long past flowering and clones just coming into flower=ing
> eventhough they were growing only 50 miles apart and at the same altitu=de.
> To be definitive about the status of species one needs to study the
original
> descriptions, study the holotypes (if possible) and make
fieldobservations.
> Particularly for that last part there is a big need and unfortunately n=ot
> enough people are making fieldobservations to get a better understandin=g
of
> variation within a species. For that reason the status of most species =is
> still somewhat preliminary and our conclusion should be read as such. T=he
> only thing we did was letting everybody know what our findings were and=it
> is enterily up to the collectors to go along with our findings or not.
> Through the recent imports from China we finally get a glimpse of the
> species that grow in China but it is obvious that the exporters try to
find
> extremes in populations in order to market as many "different" Arisaema=as
> possible. Only by mistake intermediate forms pop up but it is true that
one
> has to presume the Arisaema coming in from China are not hybrids. For
> various reasons however it doesn't seem likely to me they are hybrids.
>
> Pascal